Is killing an abortion doctor murder or self defense?

It does matter to properly identify the stage of development for abortion debate. It doesn't matter to you only because you NEED the emotional appeal of "baby" to help your case. You can only win with dishonesty.

 

Of course the stage of development is important - have you missed this entire thread?

 

To avoid confusion in debate, a rose should be called a rose, and not some other name.

Abortions are performed in the embryonic and fetal stages, not in the baby stage, which begins at birth.

 

It does not matter how many times you regurgitate the abortionist talking point, the real question is "when does it become a human being warranting the rights and protections of all human beings?"

In this thread and others, I have described an objective look at that question. I mentioned the development stating the point at which it has a heart beat, has brain functions, feels pain, is considered medically viable, all trying to determine that point when it becomes a human being. Its clearly a human being at 21 weeks, despite your rhetoric. Somewhere between conception and 21 weeks, it becomes a human being. Identify that point and I will support unrestricted abortion before that point. But all you do is regurgitate talking points and avoid the real issue.

 

Well if I was a father of a newborn that he was gonna off, that doctor better watch his @#%$p. -- (EVERY FATHER IN AMERICA)

 

Duh, we're talking about abortion NOT the killing of newborns. It's illegal to kill people just because you don't agree with them.

 

Abortion doesn't deal with babies, they are extracting a fetus. And up until 3rd trimester, most of the brain function doesn't exist.

 

If it doesn't matter what we call it, let's call it a fertilized egg, shall we?

Traditionally at birth, and that makes sense because that's when it comes into the world and becomes biologically separate and independent of the woman No recognized human being has the right to live within and be sustained by another.

There is no definitive point it becomes a human being before birth. Everyone has his own theory, but that's all it is.

 

Except when they are born disabled of course, then you advocate killing them.

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all of the above are illegal or in the case of the enemy solider a threat to the state .. an abortionist is neither.

 

Yes a lovely quote from a woman who also had the same mindset of pro-lifers ie forcing people into doing things they didn't want to do, like refusing treatment to ill people unless the converted to Christianity and even baptising terminally ill people who could not object.

Goo luck with that.

So now you admit that the primary goal of pro-lifers is to force a woman to remain pregnant against her will, and you scream and wail about abortion being akin to slavery.

 

Yes we did, you lost the debate completely, you even ran away from a one on one debate on the subject.

 

The only thing being laughed at is your ignorance

 

The brain of a baby is four times smaller than that of an adult. Couldn't it be said that most of the brain function of a newborn baby doesn't exist yet?
If yes, maybe we should take our discussion to this thread: Killing Babies no Different from Abortion, Experts Say

 

You have absolutely no idea what comprehensive sex education is except what you lift from agenda based sites, typical comprehensive sex education is along the following lines -

Teaches that sexuality is a natural, normal, healthy part of life

Teaches that abstinence from sexual intercourse is the most effective method of preventing unintended pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV

Provides values-based education and offers students the opportunity to explore and define their individual values as well as the values of their families and communities

Includes a wide variety of sexuality related topics, such as human development, relationships, interpersonal skills, sexual expression, sexual health, and society and culture

Includes accurate, factual information on abortion, masturbation, and sexual orientation

Provides positive messages about sexuality and sexual expression, including the benefits of abstinence

Teaches that proper use of latex condoms, along with water-based lubricants, can greatly reduce, but not eliminate, the risk of unintended pregnancy and of infection with sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) including HIV

Teaches that consistent use of modern methods of contraception can greatly reduce a couple's risk for unintended pregnancy

Includes accurate medical information about STDs, including HIV; teaches that individuals can avoid STDs

Teaches that religious values can play an important role in an individual's decisions about sexual expression; offers students the opportunity to explore their own and their family's religious values

Teaches that a woman faced with an unintended pregnancy has options: carrying the pregnancy to term and raising the baby, or carrying the pregnancy to term and placing the baby for adoption, or ending the pregnancy with an abortion.

As anyone without a biased agenda can see comprehensive sex education includes the emphasise on abstinence, values and religious beliefs and in no way, as you ignorantly claim, "uses the education process as an excuse for political activity. "

The fact remains that the majority of pro-lifers do not want comprehensive sex education or free at source contraception which are the only things PROVEN to reduce pregnancies and abortions.

Every study conducted has shown that abstinence only sex education has failed, and it is no coincidence that 6 of the top 10 states with the highest teenage pregnancies have primarily abstinence only sex education policies.

Take a step away from your usual pro-life sites and actually research the subject you obviously know so little about.

 

Actually the vast majority of them ARE fake or misrepresented as being something they are not.

 

elective "partial birth" abortion is illegal, so no there are not "some women" who abort a few days or hours before birth. The only time this procedure would be used is in cases of life threat to the female or fetal disability incompatible with life.

 

Yes we all know about your obsession with killing newborns, especially disabled ones.

 

This is such a stupid question, considering that abortion is legal, and killing doctors is illegal. Therefore, killing an abortion doctor = murder in the eyes of the law.

 

just posting this thread is actually an act of terrorism, intended to intimidate those who are pro-choice, especially those working in and around abortion clinics.

 

Hmmmmm - "rights" now does an 8 week old foetus have the following rights?

Free speech
2nd amendment? (now that is a mental image and a half!)
Vote?
Self determination as in can it sign a consent form?
Right to a burial if miscarried?

Until it hits around 23 weeks (yes I know there have been some scattered few survivors at 21 weeks but usual cut off for intervention is 22 weeks and the reason is that unless the mother has been given medication to mature the lungs they simply will not survive) none of these things apply - and some do not apply until the child reaches his/her majority

And abortion after 21 weeks is RARE RARE RARE and in most states illegal,

 

In the United States, Americans rights are not limited to the Bill of Rights, and human status is certainly not granted based upon the ability to perform certain rights. Our system is based on the right of self-determination, the right to life and liberty and freedom of action, and the system is enforced through the right to due process of law. It does not matter if a person cannot speak, is a quadriplegic, or is completely dependent upon other people - rights are natural and inherent to all human beings, they are not granted by people or governments or doctors.

That includes the mother and the baby after the baby reaches the point at which it becomes a human being. The rights of the 2 have to be balanced, which puts a greater burden on the mother due to the nature of the relationship.

That is why it is so important to determine when the baby is a human.

 

You are playing semantics and my point stands - at eight weeks gestation there will be no death certificate

 

Women do not lose rights, "the right of self-determination, the right to life and liberty and freedom of action",, because they're pregnant.

Even IF the fetus is deemed A person it does NOT have more rights than the woman it's in.

 

If its a human being, then the rights of the mother and baby must be balanced. The mother does not automatically trump the baby. The mother cannot execute the baby unless the baby poses a real threat to the mother (and don't give us that BS about "all pregnancy puts the mother at risk").

 

YOU have NEVER proven that pregnancy causes women NO risks or harm, NEVER.


The fetus's rights do NOT trump the rights of anyone else.