Pfizer vaccine is junk nor tested for safety otherwise

Dude - ordering the FDA to give emergency authroization can not e considered as Trump's CLAIM that he is a hero.

In fact, as I pointed out that order was actually an impediment in that it allowed many to see the FDA decision as a political decision rather than a assessment made by medical science.

 

There was no, as in zero, political reason for Trump pushing the FDA for signing off on emergency authorization. Emergency authorization was given on December 11, more than a month after the election. Trump had lost and was a lame duck by then. So where's the political benefit?

Yes, the administration pushed the FDA to sign off on it. The FDA was ready to sign off anyway, but was waiting on finalising some language on usage and handling details. The Trump administration accused them of dragging their feet while people were dying. That's it in a nutshell and you *should* know that.

All that is not what I was referring to anyway when I said Trump did the heavy lifting. I was referring to initiating Operation Warp Speed, which even Biden has credited Trump for.

 

OIC. I'm saying that a politician ordering that a solution be implemented is a POLITICAL decision - NOT a medical science decision. The reason is that the person who makes such an order is a politician. In this case, the question that can arise is whether the decision was made by medical science or the White House.

Your idea of "heavey lifting" hits me as absurd.

Trump has actively opposed so much of medical science on COVID that simply requiring the federal government to work out delivery issues hits me as not getting Trump back to level zero.

Plus, delivery is turning out to be a PROBLEM where it intersects with government.

It's NOT the drug companies or the states that are being slow to deliver. It is "Operation Warp Speed".

 

On that I agree in a very generic sense.

Are you saying that Operation Warp Speed was only about delivery? Are you really saying that? LOL

Pfizer announced its results on November 9. The FDA didn't give emergency use authorization until December 11. First vaccine administered in the US on December 14.

The only lag I see in the above is the month+ that the FDA took in granting authorization. THAT is the primary reason that less than the hoped for amount of vaccines administered has occurred. It's also the reason the Trump administration accused the FDA of dragging its feet while people were dying. Oh, but that's politicizing it to you. Care to estimate how many fewer Americans would have been vaccinated by now if Trump hadn't lit a fire under the FDA's ass?

 

https://www.hhs.gov/coronavirus/explaining-operation-warp-speed/index.html

The lag is that states are not getting anywhere near what they were promised even a very short time ago.

When questioned, OWS was not even been able to describe why, nor present a plan for fixing that.

If what you want to give Trump credit for investing tax dollars in drug companies, fine. But, I'm not so sure I'd suggest that is "heavey lifting".

And, let's remember Trump has fought HARD against science - and not even just on COVID/medical science. He's strongly opposed even the idea that we're having a COVID problem. That kind of action from a president makes a serious difference in how many Americans die.

Now, if he turned off the TV and made sure that OWS was actually working, maybe he would have a right to be so pround as he is of that one speciric facet of US COVID response.

 

Here are Mitt Romney's comments on OWS in a press release of TODAY.

Like Romney or not, what he is saying is ABSOLUTELY TRUE.

 

Henry DEAD ! - can you give me a Reference to that ? were's his Obit. ?
& where has this War Criminals Dirt been as shoveled ? so I can on it in some imaginative way

Now First Off - It seems you missed the pertinent Fact whether he's DEAD or NOT :
.
The National Security Study Memorandum or NSSM-200,
The Kissinger Report continues to be the foundational document on U.S.
government population control. It therefore continues to represent official
United States policy on government population,control, and is posted on
the USAID website.

And so Kissinger's influence whether DEAD of ALIVE remains very pertinent to the Topic at hand

Now as regards Gates stated intents regarding the polio vaccine he introduced into Africa.
The results of those vaccines were admittedly by the WHO and the UN to be Tragically different
from those stated intents. Even though white wash & damage control cleaned up some of the mess
for the NERD - It was in FACT the vaccine program introduced and launched by Nelson Mandela
with his "Kick Polio Out Of Africa" program that was responsible for eradicating the disease
...................................................................................................................................... from out of Africa

SEE: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-53887947

They had little trouble with Vaccine Induced Polio and Paralysis until Gates appeared on the scene
And this is the wholesome Eugenicist you want us to trust with the forced injection of improperly tested
................................................................................................................................................................ COVID vaccines

<COMMENTS EDITED>



.

 

Everybody's a critic, but nobody has a plan themselves.

Right now we're dealing with 2 new vaccines, the first ever made using mRNA technology, developed in record time. Given the unknowns associated with these new type vaccines, it's probably best to start off with them in controlled settings where medical professionals are present.

Besides, especially with the Phizer vaccine, is the issue of maintaining the cold chain.

Let's get real here. The Phizer vaccine has cold chain issues and the Moderna vaccine got its approval later than the Phizer one, which was only approved on December 11. There simply hasnt been much time.

Expecting 20+ million jabs in 2 weeks is wholly unrealistic. Moderna's vaccine is the only candidate of the 2 that could be considered for wider distribution and it only got approval on December 18. That was only 2 weeks ago and it's right in the middle of the holiday season.

People that are complaining are just looking for something to bitch about.

 

So NOW you want to declare OWS has been scuccessful ...

... except for the part about where they don't even have a PLAN to solve ANY of the crippling problems that have been FULLY KNOWN for MONTHS.

... except for the part where they couldn't even describe the the reasons for their failure.

 

As I said earlier:

"People that are complaining are just looking for something to bitch about".

 

YOU were defending OWS!!

With OWS having a goal of vaccinating 20 million Americans by the end of 2020.

So far, we've vaccinated about 3 million, and there is still NO PLAN. In fact, states don't even know what to plan for - what will they get, how much will they get, how much cold storage do they need, etc., all of which are serious issues when figuring out how to set up for the additinal facilities and trained employees that will be required.

With Americans filling the morgues, our economy languishing and with so many living on aid and temporary blocks to eviction,you have some nerve suggesting that we should all be happy about the day in day out, month after month of abject failure.

 

Yes, I am defending the creation of Operation Warp Speed. Without it, there would be no vaccine available for some to be bitching about how many people have gotten it by this time.

Old Joe was stuck on test .... test ..... test for months, until the vaccine authorization was a reality. In fact, as late as October 23 Biden was saying it would be many months before a vaccine was ready for wide distribution. Now that it is being widely distributed, he and all his ilk are bitching about how it isn't fast enough!!

Here is Biden from October 23 on the vaccines:

"It’s also possible we could learn any day that one of these vaccines currently in trial is showing itself to be effective. That will be a wonderful day for our people and people around the world, everywhere. Whether it comes next week or in the next two months. But it will still be many months before any vaccine is widely available."

 

- the OWS is a total cluster that is costing American lives by failure to deliver.

- the executive branch is the only place where this can be fixed.

- Trump needs to FIX it, not brag about it, at least until it works.

 

It's called human trials, these vaccines have already been through human trials. Do you think new drugs and therapies should just be formulated and produced and sent out to the general public and then let's see what happens?

 

There is so much misinformation and so many conspiracy theories in this thread that I don't have the appetite to debunk all of them. But I did notice some earlier posts saying that the vaccines are useless anyway due to the new variants. While the new variants are concerning, this is far from the truth. I'll reproduce here a post I've published elsewhere:

-------------

Health experts in South Africa have seen that the variant there has such a high rate of reinfection - up to 30% - that previous infection did not appear to protect people. Fauci has warned that if this strain becomes dominant we could see a large number of people who had the disease before, getting infected again.

Now, here is a VERY important point: even in South Africa, NOBODY who has received the Novavax or the Johnson and Johnson vaccines, has died of Covid-19 even when they got it.

While the vaccines seem to be less protective to avoid infection with the South African variant, they appear to be 100% effective in avoiding death from the variant.

So, the idea that these vaccines are failing given a drop in anti-infection effectiveness to 49% or 57% needs to be tampered by the fact that even though the protection is partial, it is still sufficient to avoid death.

This point is very important regarding all five Covid-19 vaccines - seven if we count the Chinese CoronaVac and the Russian Sputinik V - that have presented public data. Among some 85,000 people who got these vaccines in non-placebo arms of all the trials, nobody died of Covid-19. The rate of death in an equivalent US population for these 85,000 people, thousands of them being senior citizens, is at least 170 people. Also, of all vaccinated people, only some 100 required hospitalization (but didn't die). The equivalent number without the vaccines would have been several thousand people, up to 17,000. From 170 to zero, and from 17,00o to 100, is actually extremely efficacious, in what matters most (deaths and hospitalizations).

Now, let's look at the global vaccination numbers.

108 million people have been vaccinated by now. A huge chunk of them are the elderly above the age of 65 (some of the vaccinated people are younger healthcare workers, but once that group got vaccinated, countries moved to vaccinate their people aged 75 and up, then 65 and up).

There was ONE death from Covid-19 of a vaccinated person. It's been established that the person already had Covid-19 and was battling a prolonged case, when he was vaccinated, in an attempt to enhance his defenses given that the vaccines foster focused, specific antibodies that seem more potent than the ones induced by natural infection especially in an elderly and fragile person like this gentleman. It didn't work and he died. Officials examining this case discarded that this death was related to the vaccine.

But nobody else who got vaccinated, has died of the disease.

So, let's look at what this number of 108 million people already vaccinated worldwide would represent in terms of possible death. Let's supposed what would have happened to them without the vaccine, if they caught the virus.

The CFR for people below the age of 65 has been about 0.5%. The CFR for people between the age of 65 and 75 goes up to at least 3.1% in developed countries (more in weaker countries but let's stick with the lower rate to be conservative) and for people above 75, to a whooping 11.6%.

Let's suppose that these 108 million people vaccinate so far worldwide, half are healthcare workers and other first responder below the age of 65, and for the other half of vaccinated people, half of them (one fourth of the total) are 75 and older and the other half (another one fourth of the total) are between 65 and 75.

We would have: 0.5% of 54,000,000 = 270,000 people
3.1% of 27,000,000 people = 837,000 people
11.6% of 27,000,000 people = 3,132,000 people

Total: 4,239,000 people

So theoretically, 4,239,000 who could die without the vaccine, got reduced to... ZERO!!!

And some people still say that the vaccines are useless, like some people here have said earlier in this thread? LOL

 

You've been sleeping. The covid vaccines have been released FOR EMERGENCY USE ONLY. That means the human tests were very limited, and not in accordance with standard approval procedures.

Strictly speaking these are not true vaccines. They've been sold that way, but they are not true vaccines in the traditional sense.

 

Yes after human trials.

 

Yes what?

 

Authorized use.

 

I guess we could say the human trials are being conducted on the credulous and frightened public as we speak.

 

You said

Yes we have human trials on all drugs that get approved for use.

 

That's true, and a good response. Yes, it could be argued that any recipients of vaccines are guinea pigs, but with the C19 shots being issued under Emergency Only Authorization, it seems especially the case.

Caveat Emptor.

Informed Consent for that one is only lip service, if it's practiced at all.