Question For John Atheist: Don't You Want To Remember Your Good Deeds Forever?

False.
That is NOT what you said.
More twisting and squirming in order to wiggle out
of a former claim.
You said:
"Doom, yes, the heat-death of the universe is a known thing."___Swensson
Again , ,
False.
No human being can know anything about the Universe that far into the future.
Present conditions that led to the "heat death" prediction can change.
Scientists have been wrong before.
You do NOT know that conditions will not change.
You can NOT know that conditions will not change.

JAG

 

So what?
What does that have to do with anything?
There is a lot that YOU say that other people do not say.
Why do you think you have to find other people who talk
about Atheism being the Bug Religion?
Writers "coin" phrases all the time.
I can "coin" a phrase too.
And I did.

No.
Just the exact opposite.
Its a FACT that YOU are the Bug Guy.
And the Rat Guy too.
And its all here in this thread to be easily found.

"You're right, I haven't in any way "eliminated" the fact that
humans have the same ultimate destiny as a rat,"___Swensson

Also , , regarding the Bug Thingy you said it "sounds about right"

"sounds about right"___Swensson
So?
So since that is the truth, we ought to get
the truth out to the whole world.

Why hide it?

Tell it. Spread the word. Let all of Humanity
know what Secular Humanism really is.

We need to have your message put on the
side of busses. And put in full page adds in
major newspapers. Tell the truth. Let all of
humanity come to fully know and fully understand
that Secular Humanism does NOT know that
with regard to human's ultimate destiny, that
humans rise way above a Bug or a Rat.

Let's get the truth out there.

_____________


Not that it matters, but Christian Apologists have made the
"Bug" Argument, in principle, many times.
Its one small part of The Moral Argument for the existence
of God -- that without God, man is no higher than the
beasts of the field -- or House Plants or Bugs.


JAG


`

 

How can the truth be a "smear tactic"?
Let us celebrate ALL ,, , that Secular Humanism teaches.
And NOT only the Bug Aspect.
And NOT only The Rat Aspect.
But let us NOT forget to also celebrate The Bug Aspect and The Rat Aspect.

"You're right, I haven't in any way "eliminated" the fact that
humans have the same ultimate destiny as a rat,"___Swensson

Also regarding the Bug Thingy you said it "sounds about right"

"sounds about right"___Swensson

If you don't like Bug, we can go with some other on the list down there.
~ Bug
~ Rat
~ Mouse
~ Housefly
~ Roach
~ House Plant
~ Mosquito
~ Pig
~ Cow
~ Road Kill
~ Turtle
~ Hog
~ Peat Moss
~ Snake
~ atheists
~ Humanity
, , ,on atheism and on your Secular Humanism, human beings
have the same identical ultimate destiny as does all on that
list up there namely oblivion as in ceasing-to-exist -- and you
said "sounds about right" to me. So? So I want to point that out.
And I just did.
Also I may wish to celebrate it.
Is that okay with you?
Or are you going tp present "arguments" why I ought not to celebrate the truth?
It is illogical NOT to celebrate the truth.
You said the Bug thingy "sounds about right."
So then my Bug thingy is the truth, according to your lights.
Let us celebrate the truth.
Together.

JAG

 

Massive repetitions of identical material is SPAM.

 

You were INCORRECT when you said this:
WillReadMore Wrote:
"Heroic rememberance" is purely Earthly in Christianity.
It has no place in describing anything about the
hereafter you dream of. You are confusing yourself."___WillReadMore

My post 38 in this thread cornered you and pinned you down and you
did not have the courage to admit to a simple mistake.
My post 38 here:
http://www.politicalforum.com/index...emember-your-good-deeds-forever.576683/page-2


JAG

 

I pointed out that you are trying to recast "judgement day" as "heroic rememberance".

But, the catch here is that one would first need to believe there was an afterlife.

Deciding to believe in a specific form of afterlife so that your really cool deeds can be judged is pure self gratification - to the point of being perverse.

 

Regarding Jarvis , , ,

Swensson Said:
"Then it seems to me you massively undervalue actual
existing significance."___Swensson

JAG Replied:
"I do not.
I strongly affirm that both atheists and Secular Humanists
can have HUGE present time value. Let me give you an
example."___JAG Then JAG presented the case of Jarvis
who was a Secularist who discovered the cure for cancer
and was an illustration of great value for "actual existing
significance" --- and then you post back and say this:

Then Swensson Says:
"This doesn't seem to be an argument in favour of,
well, anything."___Swensson

You want to explain to me how you think we can have a
serious exchange when you respond like you did up there?

I gave you a clear example of the very thing you were talking
about and you posted back and said "This doesn't seem to be
an argument in favor of, well, anything."

JAG

 

False.
Your Spin.
Your Twist.
Your Misdirection.
Your Wiggle & Squirm

You were INCORRECT when you said this:
WillReadMore Wrote:
"Heroic rememberance" is purely Earthly in Christianity.
It has no place in describing anything about the
hereafter you dream of. You are confusing yourself."___WillReadMore

My post 38 in this thread cornered you and pinned you down and you
did not have the courage to admit to a simple mistake.
My post 38 here:
http://www.politicalforum.com/index...emember-your-good-deeds-forever.576683/page-2

________

When you get cornered and pinned up you will say anything
to keep from admitting your simple error. You did the same
thing several times in the "atheist celebrate" thread.

JAG

Then you call the response that repeatedly points out your error, SPAM.

``

 

The reaction of Tucker while being executed for crimes she committed??? Really??

That is a pathetic example of YOUR point.

History is full of cases where people willingly went to their deaths BECAUSE of their religion. Your example doesn't hold a candle to that.

Never have I suggested that people don't hold their religious convictions to their deaths.

 

False.
It was a most excellent example of my point. Magnificent in every way.
What is really pathetic is your refusal to admit to a simple error.
You were incorrect when you said this:
WillReadMore Wrote:
"Heroic rememberance" is purely Earthly in Christianity.
It has no place in describing anything about the
hereafter you dream of. You are confusing yourself."
___WillReadMore
But you don't have the courage to admit to a simple error.
The heroic deeds of the Lord Jesus and the Apostle Paul will
be remembered in Heaven -- to say otherwise is irrational.
Remember we were talking about what the Bible said about
Heaven.

No kidding?
Really?
You don't say?
Did we ever doubt it?
No, we did not.
Also , , ,
That is a DIFFERENT subject than the beautiful story of the
axe murderer Karla Faye Tucker who lived an ultra-sinful
life and ended up axe-murdering I think two people -- but
who, while on a Texas Death Row, heard the gospel and
accepted the Lord Jesus as her savior and lived a long time
on Death Row and totally "won the hearts" of everybody that
came to know her including the Warden of the prison she was
in and all her visitors and many inmate friends. The videos on
YouTube tell Karla Faye Tucker's magnificent beautiful story
so grippingly that anybody who will watch them will KNOW
about God's amazing Mercy and Grace.

So what?
Its a different subject.

What on earth are you taking about!
Who said you suggested that. Not me.
You never suggested that Superman ate dead chickens either.
But here is what you DID say:
WillReadMore Wrote:
"Heroic rememberance" is purely Earthly in Christianity. It has no place in describing
anything about the hereafter you dream of. You are confusing yourself."___WillReadMore
And you were wrong.
But you will not admit it.

JAG

 

Well, given that this aspect is true for any other being, the choice of "bug" isn't any truer than anything else, you just picked a yucky-sounding one. Even your list, emphasises things like roach and mosquito, and conveniently leaves out lions or oaks. I'm not saying I want people to think of secular humanism as an "oak" idea, just pointing out that a presentation can also be biased, and it's not like any of us didn't notice the cheap shot.

The aspect that when we die, that's the end, that sounds about right. Calling that specifically a bug trait sounds arbitrary and malicious.

There's no defeatism in my version. Death, and its finalness, invites us to make the most out of life as we live it. What do you think the word defeatism means?

Of course there is, and this one happens to be yours.

You sure did, and you were the one to choose "bug". There was nothing about secular humanism that indicates "bug" more than any other animal, so the bug factor seems to be you.

They sure have, but none of them have managed to link it to any good reason to believe that it is actually so. None of the arguments have bridged the gap between what they perceive as ultimate destiny (or various equivalent concepts in different God-arguments) and actual reality. They (well, I imagine many of them) think it would be nice, but as we know, that doesn't make it so.

I see no problem with the idea that we're fundamentally no higher than other beings. Of course, we're greater than them in intelligence and some other aspects which are important to us, but that's no more significant than a cheetah being greater in terms of speed, which they value.

 

True, and that's not what I meant to imply. My point was that all the negative connotations that you suggest rely on there being an ultimate destiny, and if a person considers that a fantasy land, then all your points amount to nothing to them.

I read it, and I didn't see anything very useful. If we focus on our lives, see meaning in our lives etc., then your allusion to an "ultimate destiny" seems arbitrary and not something to be sent into sadness over. It's no sadder than pre-existence, which Christianity tends to deny (source) and you don't seem to "celebrate" that all over the place.

Indeed, you gave a very good example, but you didn't specify why you sulk over an asserted ultimate destiny, infinitely far in the future, when the rest of us will rejoice over the person and their contributions here and now. This "HUGE present time value" seems to slip for you when you stare into the far future. Even if we say that life if it went on forever would be good, you've still to justify why that means that such life actually exists.

I think it is what I said, the heat death of the universe and the idea of final death are concepts that are known to most atheists and secular humanists, i.e. it is well-known. Either way, that's what I meant regardless of whether my wording failed to convey it.

The point is that what humanists' belief of what happens after death is out there. "Celebrated" in your terms, perhaps.

https://understandinghumanism.org.uk/uhtheme/life-and-death/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zt2nmsg/revision/4
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2009/nov/02/funerals-humanist-religion
https://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2010/05/what-do-atheists-think-of-death/187003/

 

Nobody ever said it was.
But Bug IS true. And that is important. Bug is true,
Your Secular Humanism is a Bug Religion as explained
up-thread.

It belongs to your Secular Humanism.
If it is "yucky" your Secular Humanism is also "yucky" because
your Secular Humanism is a Bug Religion as explained up-thread.

We can add lions and oaks if you want to.
But the Bug thingy is not going away because it is the truth.

No more biased that your posted biases.
Ann NOT a cheap shot either, rather the absolute truth.
On your Religion Of Secular Humanism a human being
has the same identical ultimate destiny as does a Cockroach.

And regarding your "cheap shot" remark: I notice that the people
on your side, the atheists, constantly on this forum take "cheap shots"
against Christianity but Swensson is quiet as a little mouse and he
NEVER rises up and says, "Hey that's a cheap shot against Christianity."
What's the matter Swensson, don't like it when the tables are turned?

That is a Faith position.
Its also Secular Humanism. And atheism.
Its also sad.
Its also back to Bugs.
How so?
Because when Bugs die thats "the end" of them too.
And on Secular Humanism , , Humans and Bugs have the
same END --- ceasing-to-exist Oblivion.

I did not say it was a "bug trait" -- that is what YOU said.
I said on your Religion Of Secular Humanism a human being
has the same identical ultimate destiny as does a Cockroach
or any other Bug.
My view is that it only "sounds arbitrary and malicious" because
YOU don't emotionally like it --- you don't like to hear it. Its the
absolute truth --- but you don't want to face the truth about your
Religion Of Secular Humanism and what it actually IS and what
it actually teaches --- namely that human beings have the same
ultimate END as do Bugs and House Plants and Road Kills.

Incorrect.
Your version is saturated with pure Defeatism, namely Death
and ceasing-to-exit --- just like a Bug ceases to exist.

Having the same ultimate END as a Bug and a Cockroach
and a Pig and a Mosquito.

Good.
Then we can both celebrate that we both have Trade Marks.

No. Your Religion Of Secular Humanism was the originator
of the Bug Reality. The Bug Reality is forever tied to your
Secular Humanism. It is part of the teaching. You have
taught it right here in this thread --- Bugs and Humans
have the same End.

Good.
Then you can list them all.
Just don't leave out Bugs and Cockroaches and Pigs
and Mosquitos and Road Kills.

No.
The Bug Factor is your religion Of Secular Humanism which
teaches that human beings and Bugs have the identical same
ultimate destiny, as in ceasing to exist Oblivion..

I know you don't.
"Other beings" like Bugs, Cockroaches, Mosquitos, Pigs,
Lions, Rats, Houseflies, Mice, Hogs, Snakes , ,
, , THAT is Secular Humanism.


JAG

 

I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”

― Mark Twain

 

Ultimate Destiny is a Real as It Gets.
And its real simple too.
"Ultimate" refers to your certain coming Death.
"Destiny' refers to what happens to you after your Death.
So "Ultimate Destiny" is as practical and as down to Earth as
we can get.

And your Religion Of Secular Humanism teaches that when
humans die they have the same identical ultimate destiny as
does a Rat and a Bug and a Cockroach and a Lion and a Pig
and a Snake and a Dog and a Cat and a Sparrow.
So?
So lets announce that fact and celebrate it.

Maybe I can reach just one {1} Secular Humanist and get
him to re-think his views. If so, then he will no longer consider
it a "fantasy land."

Others may.

People are different.
If you are not sad that you and a Frog and a Rat will have
the same identical Ultimate Destiny --then that's YOU.

As for ME -- that thought makes ME sad. What? Are you
now going to present "arguments" claiming that
"JAG ought NOT to feel sad" about that? , , ,, lol , ,
___

And I mean I feel sad for , , ,YOU.
You have an excellent mind.
It is SAD to think that you believe that YOUR MIND will
have the identical same Ultimate Destiny as a Cockroach
and a Rat.

Does that NOT make YOU sad?

Just think about , , Your Mind.
And about all that you LOVE to think about.
And enjoy.
Having the same END as a Rat.

JAG

You are capable of much better than Secular Humanism.
You ought to seriously re-consider the ramifications of what
you believe.

There is nothing good about this:

Just think about , , Your Mind.
And about all that you LOVE to think about.
And enjoy.
Having the same END as a Rat , ,

, , , Oblivion


``

 

That is not true.
That is factually False.
It is impossible , , , impossible in the absolute sense of the word impossible
for the yet unborn to be dead.
There is no such thing as pre-existence in the sense that the yet unborn can be dead.
You have to be alive before you can be dead.

JAG

 

Just like its impossible in the absolute sense of the word impossible for atheists to have a god or be a religion.

 

There are a lot of things I desire. But reality is tough and many things I desire are either unlikely or impossible. When your kid's dog dies, you tell him he went to a farm, rather than telling him the truth. In the same way, Christians want to believe that they are going to a happy farm when they die. I get that the reality that your existence is ending in a few decades is a harsh reality many people simply aren't mentally or emotionally reality to accept. But I am.

 

Not.
Not "far in the future."
Just the opposite.
Let me guess your age.
Lets go with 50.
I'mon make a little chart for you.
Lets say you are 50 and you live to be 90.
That's 40 years before you face your Ultimate Destiny -- Death
At Age , ,
50 you have a mere 480 months before you meet your Ultimate Destiny -- Death
60 --- a mere 360 months
70 a mere 240 months
80 a mere 120 months before you meet your Ultimate Destiny -- Death

, , and Time flies . . .

Still think that your Ultimate Destiny is "far in the future"?

JAG

 

Yeah I started to add to my post to you, that you were
the "dictionary man."
_____

I have the same message for you:

Dictionaries are written by men.
They reflect word usage.
Word usage changes constantly.
This is why major dictionaries regularly up-date their dictionaries
with new words and new word connotations based on popular
word usage.
How people use words DOES determine how dictionaries
define words.
If we can get enough people who use the English language
to start using the phrase The Religion Of Atheism, then we
can CHANGE how the dictionary defines the word "atheism."

JAG

 

And they are.

Appreciate that.

Maybe now you are.
Your Crystal Ball is not reliable.
You can't see 10 years down the road.
Not even 6 months.
You do not know, , ,can NOT know , , what a personal
3 years battle-encounter with say Mr. Lung Cancer, will
do to your "But I am" boast.

Best.

JAG

 

I obviously can't be 100% confident that my existence ends at death. But I don't have any evidence that it does and no reason to think this. So I have come to terms with my mortality in case it turns out this life is all there is. This is a far more logical and mature way of handling things than imagining some special farm that I'll go to when I die. Your Chrystal ball isn't reliable because you don't even have any evidence for your religion.

 

Then its possible for someone to be dead before they are born, so says me a man.

 

That's honest.

Now you have.
You are human.
Humans feel confident when they are free from severe agony.

You may have a 5 year battle-encounter with say General Cancer
and Chemo --- you do NOT know what such an experience will
have upon your present views about life and death.

General Cancer is a fierce ugly murderous battlefield General
and he hates humans and loves to "eat them alive."

The "farm" thingy is your imagination.
The Bible's Heaven most likely will have some farms,
but Heaven is not a farm.

I ani't predicting the future either , , like you were.

You don't know that.
For all you know I have 3 arguments that prove God exists but
I have decided not to share them with you or with humanity.
Maybe I don't want to eliminate Faith.
So I'm keeping quiet.
You have no possible way to KNOW that is not the truth.

Best.

JAG

 

Good.
Let's go with that.
We will agree that Twain was correct and that Atheism is
a Religion.
, , , lol , , ,
If we can get enough people who use the English language
to start using the phrase The Religion Of Atheism, then we
can CHANGE how the dictionary defines the word "atheism."

JAG


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