Question For John Atheist: Don't You Want To Remember Your Good Deeds Forever?

You know what your own opinions on Theism are.
If you just relax and let your mind "go limp" for awhile
your opinions will return to you and you will remember
them -- and you can share them with humanity.
Don't depend on me.
You can do this.

A good bet would be because I do not know who you are.
I do not recall ever reading anything you wrote before this
thread where you popped in and made a snippy snide one-liner
insulting remark about theists.

No I did not forget it.
And I have not disobeyed it either.
Have you?
And what makes you think you are my neighbor?
____

JAG

 

You don't recall because I've never shared my opinions about theism in these forums; which means you made a false allegation, own it.

 

False,
My view is that you have shared your opinion on Theism
in this forum.
"It's not unusual for a theist to opine on something
they know little if anything about."___Cosmo.
The bolded red is your opinion about theists and an opinion
about theists is an opinion about theism.. Own it.
My view is that if you deny that you have shared your
opinion about theism in this forum, that you speak
falsehoods -- and you must now repent of your
falsehood violations of that "bear false witness"
commandment that you quoted.
"It's not unusual for a theist to opine on something
they know little if anything about."___Cosmo.


JAG

``

 

I stated a fact, your response was to comment about something that's non-existent.
You've already shot yourself in the foot, might as well make it both.

 

The forlorn hope of the Christian fundamentalist.

I so want to be more important ultimately than a bug therefore god.

I am so terrified of death therefore I will believe in a zombie Jesus.

I need religion other wise I have no personality, so even if you do not have one I must insist you do.

Please please please believe as I do so that I might bolster my lack of faith.

These people are do sad and pathetic it's pitiful

 

You did not.
You may never have done that.

False.
You don't know its non-existent.

False.
You have already shot yourself in both feet.
If you can say it, I can say it too.
You're no authority on "foot-shooting."
My view is you're no authority on this either:
"It's not unusual for a theist to opine on something
they know little if anything about."___Cosmo.

JAG.

``

 

Engage in the most twisted mind bending self deception in order to avoid information that conflicts with cult doctrine - This common condition among Fundamentalists is often referred to as "Lying for Jesus"

Do you really think that the term "Neighbor" in 9th command - only refers to the guy who lives beside you ?

and - while not in court so not really violating the command - you definitely have violated the principle "not bearing false witness"

Straw man fallacy - false accusation - is a major part of your modus operandi.

 

HJ,
I have been studying the Bible for decades and decades and here
below is how I believe conversion to Faith in the Lord Jesus usually
takes place .Its usually a slow process. It often takes several years.

It usually occurs in increments stretched out over a long period of time.
There can be "baby steps" at first and then you "move on up" to more
grown-up steps. Step 1 is you have to cultivate the desire to believe.

You don't have to get up one morning and say, "I will start believing in
God today." Instead you say, "I will today ask God to cultivate within
my heart the desire to believe in Him as my Savior." Step 2 is you
start reading the New Testament with the "goal in mind" of having your
faith "cultivated" by the Holy Spirit --- who is the One that is going to
cultivate your faith, if it ever does get cultivated.

Christianity is a supernatural Faith, and not based primarily upon
Empiricism and Intellectualism {but Christianity is not Fideism either}
The power of Christianity is the Person and Work of the Holy Spirit
that regenerates the spiritually dead human soul and makes it come
alive. Jesus called it being "born again." in John 3:3

Read the New Testament devotionally, and not critically. A good place to
start is John's gospel. Then move go on to the other gospels. Look for
passages on the subject of salvation and on subjects that are of special
devotional interest to you. Ask God to help you. Step one is to ask God
to help you come to faith in Christ as your Savior. If you ask Him, He will
do that. But you have to take the First Step. The path to God is through
the Heart, and not through the Intellect. The Intellect will take you right
back to where you are now. This is why you need to read, say, John's
gospel devotionally and not critically. Read it from the heart. Read it with
the heart.

For example, here is a passage in John's gospel {chapter 11} that can be read
devotionally.

"On his arrival, Jesus found that Lazarus had already been in the tomb for four
days. Now Bethany was less than two miles from Jerusalem, and many Jews
had come to Martha and Mary to comfort them in the loss of their brother.

When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went out to meet him, but Mary
stayed at home.

“Lord,” Martha said to Jesus, “if you had been here, my brother would not have died.
But I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask.”
Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”
Martha answered, “I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me
will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die.
Do you believe this?”
“Yes, Lord,” she replied, “I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, who is
to come into the world."__John chapter 11
________

Then one more point. "That still small voice" is the path to having the Holy Spirit cultivate
your faith in the Lord Jesus as your Savior. What does "that still small voice" mean? It means
that the Holy Spirit is not loud and will not raise His voice to you. He will wait for you to
speak your words asking Him to help you believe and asking Him to cultivate your faith
in the Lord Jesus as your Savior. If you do that, you will find that He will help you take Step 1,
then later He will help you take Step 2, and if you keep asking, He will help you come to Faith
in the Lord Jesus. Step 1 is you have to ask Him to help you cultivate the desire to believe.

______

My motive in writing that to you was to help you see light based upon what I believe is the usual
path to salvation. It was from "one human being to another" and you can choose to take it like that
or of course you can choose to "pick it to pieces" along with mockery etc .I've "heard it all" so if you
choose to "go after it" with your Secular "ice pick" you will not "hurt my feelings" any at all.

Best

JAG

. "For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake He
became poor, so that you through his poverty might become rich."__ 2Corinthians 8:9


```

 

So less of a choice and more of a slow, self-indoctrination?

And still no different from countless other revealed religions and denominations. You still have the fundamental problem that I'm not convinced it's worth the effort for the potential benefit given the potential risk of going in the direction some god specifically objects to.

Basically, your process only works for people who already have that "desire to believe", that's the thing nobody can just choose to have. The problem with that as I see it is that if you really, really want to believe, you'll likely get to that point (or at least convince yourself you have) regardless.

 

You made a false allegation about me and won't admit it. You lack the courage of your convictions.

 

No.
False.
You made a false allegation and you will not admit it.
You lack the courage of your convictions if you have
any convictions?

"It's not unusual for a theist to opine on something
they know little if anything about."___Cosmo.


JAG

 

I did the best I could.
Thanks for reading my post.

Best.

JAG

 

You made a false allegation about me and won't admit it. You lack the courage of your convictions.

 

, , lol , , I don't put any value or important on a single word
you say. Post your falsehoods to your heart's content.

What are you child-like and want to play the little game
called "I touched you last."

Let me help you with that.

Cosmo To JAG:

JAG


``

 

Seems like the rest of my life to me. Obviously, what constitutes a long time is a matter of perspective. Again, it is your presupposition of the idea of the ultimate destiny that forces your perspective. Without that presupposition, my life is literally the longest time I can feasibly imagine. Either way, compared to the present, it is very far into the future.

As I've mentioned (but you haven't acknowledged), this is pretty well spread information already.

How do you determine what truths to "announce and celebrate"? There are other aspects that are much more central to the ideas within secular humanism, like "you can be good without God", and "commitment to making [life] meaningful through better understanding of ourselves, our history, our intellectual and artistic achievements, and the outlooks of those who differ from us". If you're so adamant about celebrating and announcing truths, those seem pretty central. At least, they play a bigger role than the one you have chosen.

Why not? You've given plenty of argument that it would be nice, but even if we were to accept that, you've not given any reason to believe it'd be anything other than a nice fantasy.

Ok, go be sad. In the meantime, I'll be living my life to the best of my ability.

Why would it make me sad? It is only with your understanding of ultimate destiny that it is sad. Without that, life as it is holds a perfectly defensible value, or whatever makes you happy about a life.

What's "better" about it? You keep on not getting the point that unless an idea is independently believable, how good the idea seems is of no import. A Nigerian prince doesn't become more believable if he offers you billions, trillions of dollars, and no person in their right mind would be any more convinced by a rosy description.

 

Child-like game playing seems to be your territory; that and refusing to admit being wrong.

 

So, would you say that it is accurate that secular humanism is a lion religion? And that that is important, and in fact that you should celebrate it?

Actually, bugs have legs, you have legs, so would you say that you are like a bug in that respect? In that respect a bug-person? "Bug is true"? To me, such a line of reasoning seems malicious and I wouldn't use it, but if you're interested in being consistent with it, I can't stop you.

It seems to me that bugs are yucky for a bunch of reasons that are not related to secular humanism (for instance, those reasons wouldn't apply to a lion, even though lions also die when they die).

Nah, I'd be much more interested in spelling the idea out, as they did in all those links I provided a bit up in the thread. I don't mind using bugs as an example to show a point, but other than that, it seems to me there is no need to drag in animals or plants of any kind. Seems like a detour when the concept is easily explained in plain terms.

I guess you're a "do unto others as you think they do unto you" kinda guy.

Says who? Here are some examples of me defending Christianity against cheap shots and bad arguments:

It's sad that/when people die, yes. Doesn't make it not a reality though.

Well, I think it sounds malicious because I think a lot of people don't emotionally like bugs (and indeed, because I think you chose it because you don't emotionally like bugs). It sounds arbitrary because you could have chosen any word for any being in the English language, but chose one that people don't particularly like.

It seems to me that for secular humanism to be "pure Defeatism", we would have to consider death a defeat, whereas secular humanism can still consider a life successful for reasons other than going on forever. Death isn't the defeat of life, it's merely the end of one, the life can still be very successful (like your example of Jarvis). Of course, you can consider death the defeat of life if you want to, but the defeatism will then come from you, it is not a feature that comes from the secular humanism.

The understanding of reality that you're talking about yes, but choosing the word bug to describe it is all you.

Why not? Would that be any more misleading than you missing out lions and oaks? Why are you adamant about bugs, but blasé about lions?

Yep. You say that as if it is a point in your favour, but you can't seem to actually argue it.

 

You scored a point. I read them all.
I retract what I wrote in bolded red below and I apologize for my remark.

JAG Wrote:
And regarding your "cheap shot" remark: I notice that the people
on your side, the atheists, constantly on this forum take "cheap shots"
against Christianity but Swensson is quiet as a little mouse and he
NEVER rises up and says, "Hey that's a cheap shot against Christianity."
What's the matter Swensson, don't like it when the tables are turned?__JAG

JAG


``

 

, , ,lol , ,

You said I was biased.

JAG Replied:
"No more biased that your posted biases."__JAG

Swensson Replied:
" I guess you're a "do unto others as you think they do unto you" kinda guy."__Swenson

JAG Now Replies:
."I guess you're a "do unto others as you think they do unto you" kinda guy."___JAG

A sword that cuts both ways, does it not?

Best.

JAG

 

Yes we can say that. {I think we already agreed on the "Lion thingy."}
And you can add any animal or plant that you want to add to the Bug Religion.
of Secular Humanism. We can alternate between everything on a growing list.
We can say that Secular Humanism is a Lion Religion. Abd a House Plant Religion.
And a Road Kill Religion --- and we can celebrate all of it. If you want to.
The fact remains that on your Secular Humanism, human beings have the identical
same ultimate END as does Grass and Weeds and Lions and Bugs and Rats --
ceasing-to-exist as in Oblivion. And you agree with that too. You said you did.
I find that sad. I find it sad that you don't find it sad. But I'm not sure that you don't
find it sad.
~ Humans
~ Grass
~ Weeds
~ Lion
~ Fish
~ Housefly
~ Spiders
~ Cockroach
~ Cow
~ Bats
~ Geese
~ Buffalo
~ Horse
~ Mule
~ Zebra
~ Bug
~ Rat
~ Mouse
~ Black Roach
~ House Plant
~ Mosquito
~ Pig
~ Road Kill
~ Turtle
~ Hog
~ Peat Moss
~ Snake
~ Ants

JAG


``

 

, , lol , ,
That is a looooong stretch. Sell it if you can.
You're "reaching."
Apes have hair,
Swensson has hair.
JAG has hair.
So on your "reach" Swensson and JAG are "Ape Persons." , , lol again , ,
_________

That up there will not get you away from this:

The fact remains that on your Secular Humanism, human beings have the identical
same ultimate END as does Grass and Weeds and Lions and Bugs and Rats --
ceasing-to-exist as in Oblivion. And you agree with that too. You said you did.
I find that sad. I find it sad that you don't find it sad. But I'm not sure that you don't
find it sad.


``

 

You're no authority on Christianity.

 

Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.
Marcus Aurelius

 

Amazing how they never realize that by setting such a poor example they turn off others because who wants to be associated with those who do NOT practice what they preach?

 

I think his obsession with atheists has to do with their supposed lack of morality.
Newsflash; you don't need religion to have morals. If you can't determine right from wrong then you lack empathy not religion.